"American Fiction" Podcast
Nominated for 5 Oscar's at the 2024 Academy Awards. Best Actor, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay, Original Score.
Explore the laughter-laced critique of racial stereotypes in media with "American Fiction," as we charter Cord Jefferson's directorial seas and Jeffrey Wright's "What If? The Sandman, Westworld" acting prowess. Feel the pulse of identity, culture, and race articulated with a satirical bent, examining the fine line creators tread between authenticity and societal pressures. Our robust conversation brings to light not just the film's thematic brilliance but the buzz that surrounds its potential to sweep awards for its direction and performances. With insights from the cast, we peel back the layers of a narrative that invites black creators to the table without the menu of stereotypes.
Cord Jefferson's kinship with the premise of "Erasure" and its protagonist, Monk unravels in our heart-to-heart. As we converse with Percival Everett, the original novel's voice, we tackle the artist's dilemma of conforming to cultural stereotypes or embracing one's unique narrative tapestry. The evolution of Jeffrey Wright's character from the chains of a stagnant life to the labyrinth of unexpected literary fame is a marvel, one that mirrors the complex dance of fame and authenticity. The actors' collaboration and Wright's remarkable portrayal provide a gateway into the soul of a narrative that transcends racial confines.
And before the curtain falls, join me in a celebration of the story's custodians. We raise a toast to Cord Jefferson's transformative journey from journalism to his directorial debut with "American Fiction," applauding how personal themes can ignite a creative wildfire. As we draw to a close, my gratitude for your ears, from every corner of the globe. I leave you with a treasure trove of insights to ponder until we meet again in the audioverse.
"American Fiction" Podcast
Nominated for 5 Oscar's at the 2024 Academy Awards. Best Actor, Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor, Adapted Screenplay, Original Score.
Explore the laughter-laced critique of racial stereotypes in media with "American Fiction," as we charter Cord Jefferson's directorial seas and Jeffrey Wright's "What If? The Sandman, Westworld" acting prowess. Feel the pulse of identity, culture, and race articulated with a satirical bent, examining the fine line creators tread between authenticity and societal pressures. Our robust conversation brings to light not just the film's thematic brilliance but the buzz that surrounds its potential to sweep awards for its direction and performances. With insights from the cast, we peel back the layers of a narrative that invites black creators to the table without the menu of stereotypes.
Cord Jefferson's kinship with the premise of "Erasure" and its protagonist, Monk unravels in our heart-to-heart. As we converse with Percival Everett, the original novel's voice, we tackle the artist's dilemma of conforming to cultural stereotypes or embracing one's unique narrative tapestry. The evolution of Jeffrey Wright's character from the chains of a stagnant life to the labyrinth of unexpected literary fame is a marvel, one that mirrors the complex dance of fame and authenticity. The actors' collaboration and Wright's remarkable portrayal provide a gateway into the soul of a narrative that transcends racial confines.
And before the curtain falls, join me in a celebration of the story's custodians. We raise a toast to Cord Jefferson's transformative journey from journalism to his directorial debut with "American Fiction," applauding how personal themes can ignite a creative wildfire. As we draw to a close, my gratitude for your ears, from every corner of the globe. I leave you with a treasure trove of insights to ponder until we meet again in the audioverse.
Because we now have the Cinema Judge. Hello, hello, hello and welcome to the Cinema Judge. I hope my voice finds you well. To all my regular listeners, welcome back. If you knew the show, welcome aboard. Now approaching the bench, today we have a very interesting film. It's called American Fiction and it's directed by Corde Jefferson and it stars the amazing Jeffrey Wright and it's titled a dark comedy, high concept comedy, satire and tragedy. But here's the tagline A novelist who's fed up with the establishment profiting from quote black entertainment uses a pen name to write a book that propels him to the heart of hypocrisy in the madness he claims to disdain. Here's a trailer for American Fiction.
Speaker 2:How did you come to write this book? What really struck me was that too few books were about my people. Where are our stories? Where is our representation? Would you give us the pleasure of?
Speaker 1:reading an excerpt.
Speaker 2:Yo, sharanda girl, you be pregnant again. If I is Ray, ray is going to be a real father this time around. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Monk, your books are good, but they're not popular Editors, they want a black book.
Speaker 4:They have a black book. I'm black and it's my book.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean.
Speaker 4:Look at what they published. Look at what they expect us to write. I just want to rub their nose, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I'd be standing outside in the night.
Speaker 4:Deadbeat dads rappers crack. You said you wanted black stuff. That's black, right, I see what you're doing.
Speaker 3:We sold a book.
Speaker 2:No, we believe, mr Lee has written a bestseller.
Speaker 3:That's a joke, the most lucrative joke you've ever told.
Speaker 1:Now is Stag a pseudonym.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mr Lee can't use his real name.
Speaker 1:Is this based on your actual life?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you think some bitch-ass college boy can come up with that.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I don't.
Speaker 3:Can I?
Speaker 4:ask what you ran for. Was it murder? You said that, not me.
Speaker 1:They ran 300,000 copies.
Speaker 5:Your books changed people's lives.
Speaker 3:They're offering $4 million for movies, right? Yes?
Speaker 4:The dumber I behave, the richer I get.
Speaker 2:This is gone too far. Stag Arlie is still on the run with authorities.
Speaker 3:You haven't done anything. It's not like they can arrest you.
Speaker 4:I wish I could go back to not selling books. Is it bad to cater to people's tastes?
Speaker 6:People want to love you, won't they? You should let them love all of you.
Speaker 3:There's already so much buzz because of the movie deal Michael B Jordan is circling.
Speaker 2:We want to put him on the cover in one of those scarves I guess you would call them tied around his head.
Speaker 4:A do-rag, do-rag.
Speaker 6:that's it, do-rag in a tank top with the muscles showing.
Speaker 2:It's something called a fire department.
Speaker 4:We're thinking we can get it out in time for a jantine.
Speaker 1:Now, from that trailer you could obviously tell this movie has layers. You could watch it in many different ways from different lenses. Watch it purely as a comedy, a social commentary, both Whatever lens you want to look at it from, you could probably get something different from it. Somebody who happens to be a person of color, or a person who isn't a person of color or just is different, or this can be seen by and reacted to by in many different ways. And I personally reached out to several black friends of mine because I didn't really know where I could tread or not tread or talk about, because this movie and or book that is based on talks about white society expecting certain things from black people or any other people from color or what have you. But this is specifically black people and then how we want them portrayed or how we think they should be.
Speaker 1:It is a complex issue that at first I'm like, ah man, I don't think I'm qualified to give any kind of insight on this, because it's a lot deeper than we really think it is, but it's anyway. I'm sorry I'm stammering all over the place, but first we have a featurette for you and in this featurette you're going to hear from the director Jeffrey Wright and other people involved talking about the book, the movie, what it addresses, and it's just. This movie truly is a very unique film and I hope it gets the attention it deserves. And there is talk about awards on this one because it is it's so well directed, so well acted, everything about it. It's one of those rare films that come around. That again, it's not a tentpole, it's not a big blockbuster, but it says something. So the first featurette just kind of gives you that little story of from book to page to here to movie. Here it is.
Speaker 4:It's dealing with some super relevant age old fiends, along with a deep thread of comedy and irony running through it. You sold the book.
Speaker 5:No. As soon as I met Ford, it was clear that he understood the spirit of the novel.
Speaker 3:It's a joke, the most lucrative joke you've ever told.
Speaker 5:He took my material and made it his own.
Speaker 1:Is this based on your actual life?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you think some bitch ass college boy can come up with that. No, no, no, I don't.
Speaker 6:There's something delightful in the simplicity of this story and what it's actually trying to comment on.
Speaker 2:I thought it was really funny and rooted in realness.
Speaker 7:I am thrilled to read a BIPOC man harmed by our carceral state.
Speaker 1:It explores identity, culture, race, family in a way that I think is really interesting.
Speaker 6:People want to love you, Monk. You should let them love all of you.
Speaker 5:The word court is made here. It's a fine piece of art.
Speaker 4:Once the screen goes dark, the lobby will be filled with conversation about this film. Yes, the dumber under him, the richer I get.
Speaker 7:There's levity, but also an element of surprise. I'm right there. That, to me, is really keeping with the essence of the book.
Speaker 1:I really enjoy these kind of movies that bring up force, almost discussion, have people talk and really dig your teeth into Our greater society of what we expect from others and what we put out. There is entertainment and we Sometimes just do that out of just Reaction of this is what people want and do. Other entertainers do that too. Do they in order to do a job or just get a job? They play into that and say how can I get more ratings are, how can I get more sales? What can I do To get that?
Speaker 1:And maybe some people lean further into that, because I was talking to a few of my friends about that and it cuts both ways. I know this. I realize this movie talks more about the white people pushing it, buying it and making this happen, but it's, it is more than that. There is more people involved in its, more sides of it, more people of color that do push, that, make it happen to. But I get it's, that's not the story they're really trying to tell here. It's, it's, it's more of this other one, but it does cut both ways and I just love that discussion.
Speaker 1:So first we're gonna hear from the author, percival Everett, the guy who wrote the novel erasure and talks about the story in the character. And then we're gonna hear from the director, cord Jefferson, and we go back to the author and he talks about growing up and how he grew up. He didn't grow up like the books that he was seeing in the store and I was like him. Talk about that story, it's really fascinating. And we go back to the director and he talks about the story in the movie and we go back to the author and talks a little bit more about the character of monk.
Speaker 5:My name is Percival Everett and I'm the author of a novel called erasure, just published some 20 years ago, and this the source for this, for the movie American fiction. The novel is about the impediments to making art that our culture puts in front of us. To give a nice boring, academic answer, it's really about a pissed off writer who is unhappy with with the treatment of his work. The character is alarmingly similar to me but it is not me, thank goodness and he has met with some career pitfalls. His novels haven't sold particularly well, he has some trouble getting published and it seems that the problem always comes back to the fact that his work is a little too academic and not stereotypically enough black.
Speaker 7:I read this novel that I adapted, erasure by Percival Everett, and like I fell in love with it Almost as soon as I started reading it and just sort of felt the material deep in my Deep, in my core, like no piece of art has resonated with me as deeply before since, and so I knew almost immediately that I wanted to adapt it and I knew that I wanted to write the script, because that's what I've been doing.
Speaker 7:I've been working as a TV writer for about six years when I found this book and then, the more that I read, I started reading the novel in Jeffrey Wright's voice. That's sort of like how quickly I started thinking of Jeffrey for to be in this movie. And then I started, the more that I read I was like, oh, maybe I should direct this. And I think that the reason why I wanted to direct this, the reason that I felt comfortable doing that, was, I told myself, if I go on set every day, if I go on set and nothing about lighting, I know nothing about cameras, I at least know this story like in my bones growing up in the US when I would go to the bookstore.
Speaker 5:If I were, if I were to see black characters, they would be depicted in novels of the Ancabella himself, or always In the inner city. And I was a middle class black kid. That was my family. My father's a doctor, my grandfather's a doctor. We didn't exist in print or on screen, and so that's that's. That's pretty much the root of the problem in the novel.
Speaker 7:The story of the film is is an author named Monk Allison who feels pigeonholed when it comes to his role as a black artist in the world and feels like they're a rigid restraint what people say he can cannot write, and so, to fight back against these restrictions, he pulls a prank and writes a writes a novel called my pathology that contains all of these black stereotypes that he sort of resents, and then he intends to send this book to publishers in order to shame them for the kinds of material that they solicit from black people. He anticipates that this book is going to be a piece of performance art in which all these, all these white publishers are embarrassed about the work that they solicit, and it ends up becoming a massive bestseller.
Speaker 5:The most basic story here is is about that writer who can't fit in. He has familial problems with his, his brother, his, his, his, his mother, who is approaching dementia, but navigating not, it's a character because of his upbringing and how it doesn't allow him to fit perfectly comfortably in this American, into this American culture. He's trying to find that, that comfort, and then find a place.
Speaker 1:I could sit and listen to Percival Everett talk all day. His intelligence, his wisdom, his calm demeanor Is that right to mean your? How do you say that word? I think you know what I mean. But the guy is so intelligent, just just keep talking. I could just sit here, tell stories about your life. You know what this, all this love them to let you go, that'd be great. Just talk to us. I don't know. I think the guy's just what a guy. Now give me up.
Speaker 1:Next I'm going to play you a couple of featurettes and later on in the show I'm going to give you a website. If you want to watch the TV show with no interruptions for me at all, you can go to this website that I'm giving you later on, because in these featurettes they have clips, they have on the set footage. They have a various amount of things going on that you just can't really see when you're listening to this. So if you want to, it sometimes gives a lot more clarity when you watch the TV version of it.
Speaker 1:In this feature, just like the other one yet you heard, some of the stuff is going to be redundant. There is some repeating little lines or sentences or clips from the movie that we play several times in these featurettes, but it's more about getting the point across, about what this movie is truly about the characters, the development, the author. They're saying so much, so I'm just going to sit back and let you listen to these featurettes Again. Some of them may be redundant in little aspects, but they offer a little something different in each one. Here it is.
Speaker 3:Monk, your books are good, but they're not popular.
Speaker 4:Monk is a writer, but for those few people out there who still read, they don't like what he's offering.
Speaker 2:He doesn't want to be page and hold in terms of the stories that he writes.
Speaker 4:Look at what they publish, look at what they expect us to write.
Speaker 7:He's sick of the racial politics, of being a black artist in the world.
Speaker 4:I just want to rub their noses in it.
Speaker 7:So he pulls a prank and writes a new novel. Hello.
Speaker 3:I'd be standing outside in the night.
Speaker 4:Dads, rappers crack. You said you wanted black stuff. That's black, right, I see what you're doing. And it becomes the best selling novel of his career.
Speaker 3:We believe Mr Lee has written a bestseller. That's a joke, the most lucrative joke you've ever told.
Speaker 6:But then he sees folks like this is amazing, this has gone too far.
Speaker 2:Stag Arlee is still on the run for authorities.
Speaker 3:He haven't done anything. It's not like they can arrest you.
Speaker 4:I think it's going to be really gratifying for people to gather in a theater and watch this.
Speaker 1:If you're wondering what has Cory Jefferson done? Because this guy you need to know more about Cory Jefferson. He's just what he's done. He's a story editor. He's a writer executive story editor. He writes stuff. I'm just going to give you a list of things he's involved in. I'm not going to say what each thing he did, those kind of things in all these scenes. I'm going to list. He's just so talented it's hard to list everything he's done, but he's been involved in the TV show the Good Place Watchmen, station 11, which was a great show If you've never seen that one, station 11, master of None, and that's just some of the stuff he's done.
Speaker 1:This guy has so much talent. I really just look forward to more and more what he does in the future, because the person of this much skill, I just can't wait to see what he gets his hands on, what he wants to create, what people give him. I mean he could do it all himself. Anyway, it doesn't have anybody giving anything to him. That's what makes this era of movies and TV so outstanding, so rewarding, because all these people now have a voice and now we get to see all these different kind of stories, not just the same cookie cutter stuff day in and day out. Now we live in I almost call it the second golden age of television and our movies. So I think we should count ourselves lucky that we have people like Cory Jefferson in our creative world as we speak.
Speaker 1:So we're going to hear from him and he's in talk about Jeffy Wright. And then we're going to hear from Jeffy Wright talking about the story and the character. And then we go back to the director and he talks about working with Jeffy Wright and I love what he talks about here. He talks about hey, he has every right to be this guy. He goes oh, I don't have to talk to anybody because I'm so-and-so, but no, jeffy Wright is just this down-the-earth guy who wants to do the job right and he's collaborative and everything like that. It's just a really cool interview.
Speaker 1:And then we go back to the author and it's really nice to hear this too. When he heard Jeffy Wright was going to be part of this, he's like, oh yeah, who else could play this role? So, knowing an author is just thrilled to have somebody play this role that you wrote. It's your creation, your baby. You're entrusting it to these people and you know when it's in their hands. They're going to do it right Because with Cory Jefferson and Jeffy Wright obviously it's going to be a touchdown and then we go back to Jeffy Wright and he talks about some of the touchy themes in this movie. But it must be very rewarding as an actor. This is something I really want to sink my teeth into, I would think as an actor. Obviously that's why he took it. The rewards of doing a film like this must be incredible.
Speaker 7:I just think that Jeffy has this real air of gravitas around him at all times. He seems professorial in a very real way, and so and I also think that he had the ability to play like a lovable grump. I think that that's a very difficult part to play, because I think that if you air too far on the side of grump, you lose people and nobody wants to root for you anymore. And so I think Jeffy had this really nice blend of kind of like professorial gravitas and maybe a little prickliness along with it, but also the ability to sort of keep you rooting for him, sort of like a softness and a relatability that sort of like keeps you on his side throughout the course of the film. I also think that he's a really funny comedic actor. Obviously, people know him for his dramatic turns and he's obviously great in all those, but I sort of anticipated that he was going to be like a really funny comedic actor and a perfect kind of straight man for all the absurdity that's going around him in the rest of the movie.
Speaker 4:The film is about a guy. He's a writer, he teaches, he's out in California, he's doing reasonably well, but he's not really satisfied. He's not really satisfied with his writing career, his social life is pretty stagnant and he returns home to Boston for book fair and he also returns to see his family, which is a source of some anxiety for him and some frustration as well. At this book fair he discovers the success of a writer named Sintaric Golden, played by Issa Rae, and he becomes very quickly somewhat jealous of her success.
Speaker 4:But she writes a different type of book than his. He writes things that are fairly abstract, intellectually a little bit obscure even, whereas she writes things really for the masses. So he discovers her success in the midst of kind of the deterioration in some way, of his family and the pressures that come onto his shoulders because of that lead him to even greater frustration, which ultimately leads him to writing a different type of novel. He writes a novel that I guess is kind of an urban novel, maybe a more populist story that he tells, which becomes a great success, much to Issa Gran, because he really writes the thing under a pseudonym. But the success of that novel allows him to take care of some of his family responsibilities and things like that, but they lead to a greater and greater sense of confusion and perhaps shame for him, professionally, artistically, creatively, and so that whole kind of mix of stuff just boils up in the cauldron of this film and he's trying to survive at all.
Speaker 7:He was really a collaborative person to work with and he sort of really wanted to get in the weeds with me on the character and on the film and the scenes. And he was just you know. I sort of had anticipated that he might be this kind of you know, because he has every right to be kind of this standoffish sort of like I'm an incredible thespian, but he wasn't that way at all. He just came in and was super enthusiastic about working with me and the rest of the actors and sort of finding the scenes and finding the film. So yeah, I'm forever grateful to him for that.
Speaker 5:Well, the character's name is Thelonious Monk. I'm sorry his middle name is not Monk. His nickname is Monk because of his first name, thelonious, last name Ellison, a rather obvious tribute to both Ralph Ellison and Thelonious Monk. He's played by Jeffrey Wright, and as soon as court told me that Jeffrey was the person he had in mind, I couldn't think of anyone else who could play this character. So this worked out beautifully, and Wright's portrayal of Monk is so nuanced and quiet, but in no way timid, that one can't help but be engaged with him.
Speaker 4:It's dealing with some super relevant, super tricky kind of age old themes that exist both in our society and in our storytelling. But there's a deep thread of comedy running through it, in parody and irony, and I was really quite drawn to that balance.
Speaker 1:In our next featurette we're going to hear about working with Jeffrey Wright and I just love hearing other actors talking about other actors, because you know that kind of chemistry when you're on set it just oozes out to us, the viewer, because if people aren't getting along, a lot of times not every time, but a lot of times you can just feel man, it just doesn't seem right. But when everybody gets along and they enjoy each other's creative abilities, it usually shows through and we're going to hear people talk about that. And these people that are talking aren't slouches. These people are talented individuals. We're talking Sterling K Brown, sra, tracy Alice Ross, and just hearing them rave about Jeffrey Wright you know the guy has it all.
Speaker 6:It's quite a milestone for me to get a chance to just share the screen with Jeffrey Wright. People want to love you, bro. You should let them love all of it when it takes my mom.
Speaker 2:I got to work with Jeffrey Wright. She was like what?
Speaker 7:The minute Jeffrey signed on, I was so excited. He's an incredible actor.
Speaker 2:Jeffrey becomes something different in every role and I didn't know that he was a laughter, but we've met him laughing a lot, which made me really happy.
Speaker 4:The film offered me a character to wrap myself around on the most personal and kind of emotional level that I could sink my teeth into.
Speaker 1:Now, just in case, just in case, on a shot out of nowhere, you might not know who Jeffrey Wright is, and if you don't know, off top of your head, once I name off just a sliver of his work, you're going to go. Oh okay, now there's no way I can name everything he's in because he's so talented, he's in such high demand. I'm going to give you a brief rundown here the French dispatch, the Batman, broken flowers shaft. What if I am? Groot Rustin, asteroid City which is a great movie, by the way Batman, the audio adventures, the Sandman and, of course, the HBO mega hit, westworld.
Speaker 1:Again that's just a tip of the iceberg, but that's who Jeffrey Wright is. I mean, he is a chameleon. He could do so many different kind of roles. That's what kind of sets him up. Part two he could do comedy, he could do action, he could do sci-fi, voiceover, you name it. The guy can do it without even blinking and that's what makes him so.
Speaker 1:In demand is really the word I'm looking for, because if you have a project, you go hey, I want to make this authentic, I want to make it believable. Who are you going to call? You're going to call Jeffrey Wright, because he has everything he could possibly want in an actor. But coming up next, we're going to hear from the writer-director, cory Jefferson. And even though Monk, played by Jeffrey Wright, his character is a bit of a grump. The real challenge was this how do we get the audience to really sympathize or support him or back him? Well, you surround him with people who do love him and do understand him. So then we get to kind of get that behind the scenes. Look at who he is as a person, not just because sometimes you can look at him as a grump. In the same vein, we're going to hear from Erica Alexander talking with the character of Monk also Sterling K Brown and then we have a scene and the scene is Monk walks into a bookstore and he's wondering where's his book. But the guy who works there doesn't know who he is and he asks where my books are, or his books or the author's are. He takes it to him and he looks up. It's under African American Studies and he's like whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1:This book isn't about that, it's just a book. The characters have to be black, but it's not a black story per se, if that makes sense. And the Sterling K interview talks more about that. It's a really great interview. And that's one thing I've always wanted people to talk about too is sometimes how this stuff happens, where people start paging, holding stories about black people or anybody of minority, about always having to be just about being black, not just a story just with black people in it. Does that make sense to you? Because sometimes you see stuff like that where, let's say, if it's a heavily black story, it has to be about being black, but not just about a story about a doctor and a lawyer, just who are black. And I might be talking in circles here, but that Sterling K Brown interview. He kind of sums it up really much more professionally than I could possibly ever dream of. Anyway, here's those interviews in that clip, one of the keys to.
Speaker 7:I think making a lovable grump work on screen is Surrounding him with people who love him despite his grumpiness, right, and so I think that you, you serve, teach the audience that as sort of pugnacious and kind of prickly as this character is, there are people who are not that way, who love him and sort of like can see the good side of him.
Speaker 7:And that kind of teaches the audience like, okay, if they like that, if they like this guy, then maybe I should like this guy. Sort of like when you know, when your friend introduces you to one of their friends and you're like not sure about this picture, you really like your friend, like okay, my friend likes this person and there's probably something good here that I should, I should pay attention to. And so Surrounding monk with characters who were much more effervescent and buoyant and joyous than him was, I think I sort of like key toward letting the audience in and sort of like Helping the audience to root for more right is that they're like. You're like, oh, coraline, who's like lovely and vivacious and formidable, she loves monke. And and and cliff is brother, who's like Really sort of like a bundle of energy and joy and happiness. He loves a monk, and so I can see a way to love my monk is a man who right now is caught in the middle.
Speaker 2:He's like in between a rock in the abyss and he chooses the abyss. You know he jumps because A lot of things in his life have not only frustrated him but just have, you know, just been just beyond his reach. And I think he's frustrated and I think he's a little lonely, but I also think that he's ready to make a transformation. So the wonderful thing about monke in that name monke, you think, is kind of no sick to sequestered or something is that he's born anew and he's gonna, you know, be a new man. But yeah, that's who monke is.
Speaker 6:Monke, the loneliest elison, played by Jeffrey right, is the protagonist of our story. He's a professor, novelist and someone who doesn't necessarily believe in race I think is probably one of his most interesting features and while he is an african-american novelist, he does not wish to create novels that are specifically and only for an african-american audience, wants to have a larger audience and sort of is frustrated with the idea of being pigeonholed as just an african-american artist. Has dated white women. His brother cliff, comments on when he sees him dating a black woman is a bit surprised. What have you?
Speaker 6:But I think he is intelligent, comes from a very well to do black family in boston, you know, has two siblings who are doctors me and my sister doctors. He's a PhD, calls himself a doctor, but we know it's not like really a doctor, but you know high achievers and what else can I say about him? Like he's, he's sort of like really trying to reconnect with himself. One of the themes of the film Is about soulmates and how people were created originally with like two heads and two bodies and sort of like the gods decided to separate them so that they could not have their ultimate power, come into the fullness of themselves, and so there's there's a theme in the film about him sort of coming back into grasp with whom he actually is. There's a part Of him that feels disassociated and disconnected from himself, and the movie touches on that very deftly. Very widley, excuse me.
Speaker 4:Ned, do you have any books by the writer Thelonious Ellison? Yes, this way, here you go. Yeah, wait a minute, what? Why are these books here? I'm not sure. I would imagine that this author, ellison, is Black. That's me, ellison. Yeah, he is me, and he and our black. Oh, bingo, no bingo, ned. These books have nothing to do with African American studies, they're just literature. The blackest thing about this one is the ink.
Speaker 1:I don't decide what sections the books go in and no one here does.
Speaker 7:that's how chain stores work. Right, you don't make the rules.
Speaker 4:And you don't make the rules. I'm just gonna put them back after you leave, don't you dare, ned, you dare.
Speaker 1:I'll know about you guys, but I love hearing the behind the scenes of how somebody got involved in the business. And next we're gonna hear from writer director Corrige everson describing that and I've been telling you how talented this guy is the whole episode, but now I'm gonna have some of the other people tell you Just how awesome he is. We're gonna hear from John Ortiz, the author, jeffrey right, and finally we hear from the author again talking about the family in the story.
Speaker 7:But I love hearing the praise about the director so before I was in film and television, I worked as a journalist for about eight years and various capacity as a music journalist for a little bit. I was a blogger for a little bit. I was a white house reporter for a little bit, doing political reporting. I was just kind of a jack of all trades that industry. And then I always sort of had an interest in film and tv and always thought that I might like to pursue screenwriting one day. But I didn't really have any idea how to break into the world it's you know, it can be, it can feel like there's a lot of obstacles to getting into entertainment if you're not an entertainment already. And so, fortunately, one day a guy named michael malley, who was the show runner for the show called survivors remorse that was based loosely on the bron James's life it was on stars he reached out to me and said that he'd read some of my journalism and said I think you might be good at tv writing. Would you want to take a chance? And so I did. I took my first tv job and then I never look back. I really, really loved it. I really love the collaborative nature of it, and I just went from there when I read a ratio by personal ever it, it Resonate with me deeper than any piece of art ever had.
Speaker 7:And I think that that was because, you know, it wasn't just because the professional themes of sort of the limitations that people put Black writers and creatives of color and sort of the limitations that people have about what our lives look like. It was also because there was a lot of family themes that were going on in the book that really Resonate with me. You know the book is about siblings and sort of. You know I have two siblings, monk has two siblings and you know the dynamic of those siblings sort of felt similar to my dynamic.
Speaker 7:You know the book has a. You know I don't want to spoil it, but the book has issues with the mother that really sort of felt like issues that I had with my mother. There was just all these kinds of overlaps between monks personal life and my personal life and I think in order to sort of like make a really Passionate adaptation that doesn't feel like bloodless, like you're just doing it by wrote, you really need to find what speaks to you personally in the story, and so there was just a lot of it in the book that spoke to me personally and felt I felt like really grounded and rooted in the story, that it gave me a way to find the courage to direct it, because I think if I'd been less passionate about the story, directing it would have been a much more difficult prospect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cord is great. I I didn't know Much about cord until I read the script and he's such a good writer and and the novel erasure that this script is based on obviously touch something deeply in court and it's so personal and I can't think of any other director to direct this project because he's teaches his, his, his, his DNA is in it. You know what I mean and and it's, and it's and it's really special to see him in action and and and the amount of care and and the leadership that he's providing with his vision. You know that specific personal Connection that he has and how to translate that into images, into scenes, is, is beautiful to watch, is.
Speaker 5:Quite, comfortably self assured. He's not cocky at all, but you, he exudes An era of confidence and and you believe in him right away, and this is kind of remarkable. You read this novel in 2020 and here we are in 2023 and it's being released. I've never, I've never seen anything like this. Some impressed by him on a number of levels, he certainly understood the novel. More importantly, understood the spirit of the novel, and it was clear to me, talking to him, that he understood what had to change in the novel to make it. I thought it was exactly what it should be. He he took my material and made it his own. He did something I would not have been able to do, which is which is transmute the novel into a screenplay, because you can't have everything from a novel on on the screen, and I wrote all the scenes because I like them. I wouldn't have been able to divorce myself Confidently from them to make something as as coherent as he did you know, he's just, you know, he's just got something in, you know, in eightly.
Speaker 4:That is served him very well here and obviously he's got a clear vision for this film because he, you know, he, he, you know, he adapted the, the, the, the novel, and he's combed through it and he knows it, he knows every corner of it, every hidden, you know, hidden room within the script and he's and he's just, you know, he's been super, super clear about you know, what he wants to do and he's also been really very smart in inviting A group of creative people to the room who could help him realize the vision.
Speaker 4:Just a great, you know, a great Ensemble, not just in front of the camera, behind the camera as well. So, yeah, he seems to, he seems to have an idea about what he's doing. You know, right out of the gate, here it's been pretty impressive, yeah, been a great collaboration and for me, working on these things, you can have a great script, you can have, you know, a great cast, you can have, you know, all the money in the world, but, you know, if the collaboration isn't there, the quality of, you know, of the partnership Isn't, you know, isn't Top notch. You have nothing. It's all about the collaboration and it's been a it's been a really wonderful one working on this.
Speaker 7:I hope audiences take away from this film a smile, that's all. That's all I want them to take away from it. I think that I think that I'd never wanted this movie to be didactic or or feel like it was, you know, giving people moral lessons. I think that I don't want to. You know, to me, the movie, the intention of the movie, is to give you a series of scenes and characters and situations and allow you to make your own decisions about it. I think that that, to me, is really keeping with the spirit of the novel that I adapted.
Speaker 7:The novel itself doesn't try to offer, offer any Solutions or answers.
Speaker 7:It's sort of more about asking questions and to me, that's what that's what I wanted to maintain in the film was the was the essence of the novel in that way, and so, you know, I just want people to come in and have a good time and enjoy themselves.
Speaker 7:You know, something that's been really, really Hardening to me is the number of people who have told me that, like, as soon as I get, like as soon as I got out of theater, I like rushed to like talk to a friend who had seen the movie to so that I could talk to them about it and sort of like Go to dinner with them and talk about it. Right, turn to the person I went to see that the movie with and said do you want to go get a drink and talk about the movie? Like, that to me is is all that I really want people to take away from the film is is something that you know they want to turn over in their minds a little bit after, after having this sort of hopefully a joyful experience for the past couple hours.
Speaker 5:This is an intellectual, fairly well healed family living in in America that isn't simply A white family painted brown who they have to deal with, with the fact that they exist in the culture as Other and do so, and with the use of humor, irony and fierce intelligence.
Speaker 1:So what do you guys think is this kind of movie that you want to see? That I present this? Ok, that I give you enough evidence and, like I said earlier, I made sure I talked to a lot of my friends about Even discussing too much about this, because there's so many ways this movie can be seen and different kind of lenses. If you ever have any questions, comments or concerns, email me cinema judge at hotmailcom or visit me at Instagram. The cinema judge. Go to YouTube. Feel free to leave a statement there. Comment, because I can't grow if I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm not here to cry, scream, anything like that about Hollywood. Leave that to professionals. I'm here to share a movie with you, to give you a deep dive, because there's enough noise out there. I just want to provide a little bubble, a movie oasis, a place you could come and learn about one movie and not have me tell you this or that, because I will never tell you not to see a movie because any movie is somebody's favorite movie. We all walk different paths. Whom I to tell you to see something or not see something? I might tell you if I like it, but there's no way on earth I'll tell you don't go see something, because that's up to you to decide. So you can find me on most platforms, and I'm also on tiktok from time to time. Feel free to leave me a comment. That's how I get better, but now it's one of my favorite parts of the show.
Speaker 1:This is where I thank you, the listeners, for listening to the podcast. This doesn't go to anybody who listens to YouTube or other areas like that, because that's something possible for me to figure out who listen to and where you're located. So if you want to be shouted out to or give a thank you, listen to it on some other platform, whatever platform you got that plays podcast. Then I'll be able to give you a shout out. And this is just ballpark. Everybody from the United States, germany, chessia, sweden, spain, belgium, guam, canada, st Paul, minnesota, prague, los Angeles, california, gothenburg, vistra, gothland County, crefffield, north Rhine, westphalia, frankfurt, maine, hesse, malaysia, brussels, brussels, capital, berlin, munich, bavaria, guam, marquette, michigan or Chester, massachusetts, minneapolis, minnesota, toronto, ontario, san Jose, california, new York, new York, just to name a few.
Speaker 1:I am so grateful that you guys take time out of your busy life to listen to this show. It blows my mind and you don't think for one second when I see your city, state or country show up, that I don't celebrate. I always do a little private dance on my chair. Yeah, it's embarrassing, but it's true and I do it. So I really, really thank you for taking time, listen to show, and I love hearing about that. Some of you people listen to when you go to work, sitting at work, on break, sitting at home, whatever you're doing. Thank you for doing that and spread the word. If you want to give me a like or follow on YouTube, whatever you want to do, if that makes you, if you know, if that makes you feel comfortable enough to do it, I'd appreciate that. So, wherever, whenever or whatever you're doing, that shout out was for you, and this week's bourbon show Don't goes out to Javant. Thanks for let me always use your ear and thanks for all your help on those, all those other things you've been helping me out with. Is coincidence that we were able to touch base at that right time and help each other out, but you too, sir, to everything you've done for me, helping me out Cheers.
Speaker 1:Now, if you're a regularist in this show, you know what I'm making a TV version of this. I'm cranking tunes. But before we get to that part. If you want to watch the TV version of this and watch it on demand whenever you want, 24 hours a day in A TV version doesn't have me at all. You don't see or hear me one bit go to BIT dot L Y slash cinema judge. Bit dot L Y slash Cinema judge, and these shows are on there usually for a couple of months. So if you listen to this right now, within a couple months of this happening, you'll be able to watch a TV version of it.
Speaker 1:But when I'm making that TV version of it, that is the epitome in my happy place. I'm sitting here in the basement Editing the TV version and I don't have to talk, think, do anything. I'm making a giant infomercial. That's what I kind of think of it in my head, giant infomercial Cranking tunes and having a blast.
Speaker 1:And once again this week I played stuff that I'm so familiar with. I don't have to really be distracted too much. I still love the stuff in the background, but it's not so new in my world where I have to sit there and listen to it. Because sometimes that happens I put on something relatively new or something I don't always listen to and I get so distracted, I end up jamming in my chair having a few beverages. Next thing I know is the wee hours of the morning and I'm like, oh man, I haven't finished a TV show yet. So I've learned through years and years and years of doing the TV version, which been well over 20 years now. I can't always put on something that's new ish in my world because some people might ask why do you always listen to the same stuff over and over? Well, a it's, I know it and be, it's just fun, I don't have to think about it too much.
Speaker 1:So this week I played England, dan and John Ford Coley. They're the kings of some great 70s tunes to super mellow relaxing. All is good when you listen to those guys. Some great tunes. And in case you want to know some of the titles, I'd really love to see you tonight. Westward wind nights are forever without you.
Speaker 1:And just randomly, the prisoner. And here's the old prisoner. Years ago, when I first heard that song in my mind's eye, I'm like this sounds way too personal, what's up with that? So years later, when the internet came around, I searched it up and I guess tools both those guys. They followed the same religion and, off the top of my head. I apologize, I don't remember what it is or what it was, but the song the prisoner is about the guy that the religion or something like that is based on. So it's kind of a fascinating story about the, this person that these guys are both fascinated with and they create the song about.
Speaker 1:So look up the prisoner or listen to the song, because again, when I first heard it years ago, I go man, this sounds too personal or too real, wonder why? So walla, you search and you shall find, by the way, other than that they have some really great tunes again. That's England and and John Ford Coley. And then I put on legendary Pat Benatar's greatest hits. Every song on there it says no, every song just smooth Rockin, some ballads, whatever it is. But, pat Benatar, if you haven't stir in a while, throw down the greatest hits. It truly is just Magnificent.
Speaker 1:And then I shifted gears again. Do on the mellow side. I went to the best of Lobo Michael, who's Lobo? You know? Lobo, just give you. Just look them up. There's some great songs, like the legendary song me and you and a dog named boo. I would love you to want me. Don't expect me to be your friend, don't tell me goodnight, how could I tell her? And so on and so on. Just throw them on, you'll understand. I'm saying check out some Lobo. Well, that is it. My glass awaits. I'm thirsty. So cheers to you and to the movies. So till next time, be well, be good, and I'm gone. I'm Jeff. Thanks for listening to the Cinema. Judge you.