KILLER OF THE FLOWER MOON PODCAST
Oscar nominated for 10 2024 Acadamy Awards
Get ready for an inside look into the making of the much-anticipated film, Killers of the Flower Moon. This isn't your typical behind-the-scenes peek. We dive into conversations with the cast, including Leonardo DiCaprio and Lily Gladstone, and offer exclusive insights from Chief Standing Bear of the Osage Nation, who partnered closely with director Martin Scorsese to ensure an authentic portrayal of the tribe's story.
This true crime piece of history will be available for streaming On Demand on APPLE TV PLUS after a run in theaters.
We've got Leonardo DiCaprio detailing the transformation of the film's focus to a beautiful yet complex love story between Molly and Ernest. Lily Gladstone shares her insights on playing Molly and her dynamic with Robert De Niro's character, William Hale. This episode doesn’t only highlight the character development, but the profound impact on the Osage culture. If you've ever wondered about the character development process, from initial drafting to final cut, this is your chance to learn from one of the best in Hollywood.
In our final segment, we explore the nuanced art of film making and discuss the deep impact of such a story. We delve into the unique relationship between Scorsese and Chief Standing Bear as they collaborated to bring the Osage Nation's story to the big screen. We also discuss the casting process, a fine blend of familiar and new faces in Scorsese's ensemble. So, tune in for an engaging conversation filled with captivating insights."
KILLER OF THE FLOWER MOON PODCAST
Oscar nominated for 10 2024 Acadamy Awards
Get ready for an inside look into the making of the much-anticipated film, Killers of the Flower Moon. This isn't your typical behind-the-scenes peek. We dive into conversations with the cast, including Leonardo DiCaprio and Lily Gladstone, and offer exclusive insights from Chief Standing Bear of the Osage Nation, who partnered closely with director Martin Scorsese to ensure an authentic portrayal of the tribe's story.
This true crime piece of history will be available for streaming On Demand on APPLE TV PLUS after a run in theaters.
We've got Leonardo DiCaprio detailing the transformation of the film's focus to a beautiful yet complex love story between Molly and Ernest. Lily Gladstone shares her insights on playing Molly and her dynamic with Robert De Niro's character, William Hale. This episode doesn’t only highlight the character development, but the profound impact on the Osage culture. If you've ever wondered about the character development process, from initial drafting to final cut, this is your chance to learn from one of the best in Hollywood.
In our final segment, we explore the nuanced art of film making and discuss the deep impact of such a story. We delve into the unique relationship between Scorsese and Chief Standing Bear as they collaborated to bring the Osage Nation's story to the big screen. We also discuss the casting process, a fine blend of familiar and new faces in Scorsese's ensemble. So, tune in for an engaging conversation filled with captivating insights."
Because we now have the Cinema.
Speaker 2:Judge.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Cinema Judge. Now approach the bench. Today we have Killers of the Flower Moon. Now listen to this cast Leonardo DiCaprio, robert De Niro, lily Gladstone, john Lithgow, brendan Fraser, just to name a few. Now here's the storyline. Members of the Osage Tribe in the United States are murdered under mysterious circumstances in the 1920s, sparking a major FBI investigation involving J Edgar Hoover. And this is directed by the incredible Martin Scorsese. Look at his body of work. It's just madness. The epic work. And so many of these films are done with Leonardo and De Niro, and here they are again taking on this true life story. Here's a trailer for Killers of the Flower Moon.
Speaker 2:Whose land is this? My land, well, well, well, our war hero has arrived. You've made a good choice coming back here. Osage are the finest, wealthiest and most beautiful people on God's earth. They are smart to everybody. They have the same. Who gets the oil? Son? I got a question. You like women.
Speaker 3:That's my weakness.
Speaker 2:Well, we mix these families together and that state money flows the right direction, it'll come to us. That's how you are. I don't know what you said, but it must have been Indian for handsome devil. Why did you come here?
Speaker 6:I work for my uncle. You're scared of him.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's the nicest man in the world. The Osage, this time is over. We got to take back control of our home. I was sent down from Washington DC to see about these murders. We have so many deaths, we've lost count. It's just bad luck. It seems more like an epidemic than bad luck to me. Osage is dying by the enemy. Do not let them die alone.
Speaker 6:Evil surrounds my heart. You got to pick a side.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if you love me anymore. Of course I love you. I'm gonna kill these men who killed my family.
Speaker 2:Did Joao say who she was most afraid of? Don't do something you're gonna regret for the rest of your life. I ain't got nothing but regret.
Speaker 1:Now, this is the way I look at it, guys. Scorsese, fearless. I admire him to no end, because these kind of stories aren't always easy. They're not simple. It makes people look like animals, because that's what they were. They treated people worse than I mean. It's sad to see what were capable as human beings, because we've seen so many movies deal with other people being hard to transition into the world. We've seen the Italian story, we've seen the African-American story, we've seen a lot of these kind of stories, a lot of, but we haven't seen this story, this kind of story that just doesn't get made.
Speaker 1:And I give credit to him, apple TV Plus, because they're the main force behind this, and it's gonna air there eventually, but it'll obviously be in theaters first, and I think it is a three and a half hour movie, and then I hear people crying about this. But people sit on the weekend and watch football for eight or ten hours. They don't cry about that and that's just. You know whatever. But this is a film and, without sounding too pretentious, there is a movie and then there's film. This qualifies as a film. It's an experience, it's epic, it's sweeping and it's unapologetical and that's what takes guts and everybody involved in this movie. I salute, because this is not an easy topic to cover and real quick, not about this movie. Now this kind of story is being told. What I can't wait for is the next director who has the guts, the backbone, to tell a story about the American Japanese after the attack on Pearl Harbor. That story has never been told on film. Maybe it has, but according to my limited memory, I don't remember a major studio telling the story about how we put them in homes and took them out of their homes and put them in, basically, concentration camps. That's the movie we need to see, two just like this movie, because no one other than somebody on this level, martin Scorsese, is capable of making this kind of movie.
Speaker 1:And coming up next we're going to hear from him from the red carpet talking about the process that it wasn't just we're writing this and done. This took years to make, because at first they wrote it from the FBI's point of view, based on the book, but then they go. That's not the heart of the story. We need a basis on Molly, the woman who's married to Leonardo DiCaprio's character and what her voyage was like. So first we're going to hear from him talking about that. And then we're going to talk to DiCaprio also about that whole writing process and interviewing everybody wanting to make sure they got this right Not just writing it just for flash, but writing it for depth. And then we're going to hear from Lily Gladstone, who plays Molly, and she talks, too, a little bit more about the story, about when they got kicked out of their, what the Osage people got kicked out of their area and placed in this other land and what they did with that. So this I find is incredibly interesting. Check it out.
Speaker 7:Well, we had worked on the script for so long and we felt that we had exhausted every possibility of making it through the point of view of the Bureau of Investigation. I'm talking about two and a half years of work on the script while we were doing other films, and myself and Leo came to the decision that the real heart of the story was through Molly, through Molly Burkhardt, and that means he shouldn't play Tom White, he should play Ernest. So we revised the entire script and that took actually all the way through during shooting.
Speaker 3:A tremendous responsibility in telling this story correctly. We wanted to be as authentic as possible and that led us to have many different meetings with tribal elders in the Osage community, talking with direct descendants of the victims, their great-grandchildren, a lot of them who we worked with in the film, who worked on the film with us in various different departments, and they really gave us an incredible insight into a story that they have been sort of suppressing to the outside world and have kept Insular in their community because it was so incredibly traumatizing and it's still a raw nerve to them. It's a generational. The effects of the Osage reign of terror has been generational and it still exists today. They're in Oklahoma.
Speaker 6:After having been relocated and removed from their ancestral homelands to Oklahoma, the reservation they have now they also purchased it because they knew that was a language that the government would understand and in doing so they also had the keen insight to secure the surface mineral rights. So after having been in their new homelands for a pretty short amount of time just a couple decades then oil was struck and overnight it made Osage at the time in American history. At that time in the world the richest people per capita anywhere I mean, talk about typical.
Speaker 1:The government shoes them away to another place. Oh hey, they found liquid gold. Well, now they'll just kill them all and just take it from them. I mean, what a bunch of pigs. And it's just so sad that things like this have happened through history. But that's what these movies are for to shine a light on it and say, looky here, this is what went down. So coming up.
Speaker 1:Next, I have a few featurettes Now. In these featurettes the studio they sent me these pre-made mini commercials covering one topic and in these little clips you're going to hear interviews while they're doing that. They're going to also have film clips in the back, on and on the set footage, and a little bit later on I'll give you a website that you can watch the TV version of this. So you can watch these interviews, watch the on the set footage, because sometimes when you see that, it just flows a little bit better. But so the first one's going to be this it's going to be a little bit of an inside look. You're going to hear from the cast and crew talking about just the basic thing about this movie. And then we're going to have some character featurettes. First one's with Leo's character, then Lily's and then Daenerys. So that's what's going to happen. I'm not going to interrupt them, because you're here for that not to hear me interrupt every time. So that's what's going to go down.
Speaker 2:Well, well, our war hero has arrived.
Speaker 7:Pillars of the Flower Movement was a series of murders of Osage men and women to built them at the discovery of oil on their land.
Speaker 3:The Osage reign of terror was a fascinating piece of American history.
Speaker 7:I was drawn to the idea to tell this terribly tragic story that was never brought to national attention.
Speaker 3:Marty, obsessed with telling the story with the most honesty that he possibly could.
Speaker 7:One of the key things was that it was drawn to this world, to where friendship and love existed, with latent extortion, exploitation and murder.
Speaker 2:When this money started coming, we should have known it came with something else.
Speaker 3:In our film, Ernest develops a relationship with Molly Burkhardt.
Speaker 2:I don't know what she said, unless I'm an Indian for handsome devil.
Speaker 7:Ernest was encouraged to marry her by his uncle, Bill Hale, in order to get her family's shares in the oil profits.
Speaker 6:Hale was a very enigmatic presence in Osage country.
Speaker 3:He definitely represented somebody that wanted to take advantage of the situation at all costs. The time is over. There was a need to tell this story from Martin Scorsese. There was something intrinsic in him to do this story justice.
Speaker 7:There's a sinister nature of the murders of the Osage people.
Speaker 4:It's a special miracle to make all this go away. You know they don't happen anymore.
Speaker 7:I wanted to do justice to the Osage so that the audience feels the immensity of the tragedy.
Speaker 3:The character of Ernest Burkhardt. I found absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 7:Ernest comes to Oklahoma and ultimately falls in love with Molly Kyle.
Speaker 2:Show me Kassie. I don't know what you said, unless I'm an Indian for handsome devil.
Speaker 3:William K Hale used that as an opportunity to prey upon her wealth.
Speaker 2:Osage. They're gonna go. Their time is over.
Speaker 7:Ernest is one very strong influence of his uncle. He finds himself getting deeper into murderous plans. I'm sorry, we're all in trouble.
Speaker 6:Working with Leo and watching this master create this character. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 3:Ernest is a real life representation of the incredible greed of that time.
Speaker 2:I just love money. I love it as much as I love my wife. I feel immense responsibility playing Molly.
Speaker 6:Burkhardt Oil wealth brought a lot of undesired attention to Osage country. This blanket is a target on our backs. Molly's family faced latent extortion and murder to build them out of their wealth.
Speaker 7:When the murders start happening, Molly challenges the justice system.
Speaker 6:You want to go to Washington DC. This may be the last thing.
Speaker 3:I do. Molly is really the heroine in a lot of ways. Do you have any idea who might want to harm you? Molly embodies the pain of the Osage people. Police didn't help. There's murder in Osage and the police do nothing.
Speaker 6:It's a powerful film and I'm on her to stand at the Osage nation and the descendants of those who perished.
Speaker 1:I ought to kill these men who killed my family. William King Hale is an extraordinary character.
Speaker 7:Osage. Are these most beautiful people on God's earth? He was respectful on the one hand and murderous thug on the other hand. You're going to make trouble, make it big.
Speaker 3:William K Hale wanted to take control of Osage wealth and territory at all costs. That state money flows the right direction, it'll come to us. It was exploiting and manipulating them and, if necessary, do away with them almost as if it was for their own good.
Speaker 7:You're going to kill this hand of yours.
Speaker 2:How'd you know? In real life.
Speaker 3:William Hale was the banality of evil. So many troubles that we've brought on you.
Speaker 2:Robert De Niro is one of the people on this planet that can change the temperature in a room.
Speaker 6:He is so powerful. They're going to go. Their time is over.
Speaker 2:Their time is over.
Speaker 1:It will happen. I don't even know what it feels like, but just thinking about it I can't imagine how challenging and enthralling and intoxicating it would be to take on such challenging roles. Every one of those little featurettes talks about the character, but they were a real person in real life. That's what's so gripping and insane about just this whole world and being an actor like that. You have to find a reason to play the character, or your own reason, what to draw from, what to use. It must be so rewarding but, again, incredibly challenging to play sometimes an extremely flawed character and you have to somehow in your mind rationalize and say, all right, I'm going to play this straight up and this is what the person is like or this is what I think they were like, because obviously you don't know everything that anybody has ever said. You have to find your own interpretation. But that's what sets great actors apart they can make it their own and not just doing a character characterization or just play a flat out evil dude or anything like that. You still have to find nuances.
Speaker 1:And also, I love hearing about the development of a project from the beginning, middle and end, and this one has a lot of middle because the option that several years ago the book and the story and then they approached the Osage people and just kept developing it. So up next we're going to hear from Chief Standing Bear from the red carpet and his interview is just top notch. Hearing a person that's part of that world talking about the development of it and who is involved, and for whatever reason, this stuff is just gold to me and if you're a movie geek like I am, I think you'll find it extremely interesting too. And then after him we're gonna hear from Leonardo DiCaprio also talking about the whole development and then that whole when they decided at that one moment we have to shift gears from the perspective of the government to Molly.
Speaker 1:And just hearing an actor like that, you just know they're involved, because it's not just a role where he just he got to scripting, says okay, I'm gonna go there and just read the lines. He was hands on from the get go. And that's the kind of movie I want to watch is an actor is really involved in the script development, in finding the character, because, if I remember correctly, he wasn't supposed to play this character. He was supposed to play the FBI guy who comes to investigate the crimes, but he goes. No, I know, the other part is more juicy.
Speaker 1:So then even mid production, not in the middle production, but when they're writing this and doing it. He does not. I want to play this role and that just shows you how much dedication that somebody like Leo has. He was. This is the best best part. This is what I can really sink my teeth into. First Chief Standing Bear and then Leo talking about the script development.
Speaker 8:One principal chief of the Osage nation and when David Grand was writing the book, he was spending a lot of time with us years and after he sold the movie rights he called and told us that imperative would take it from here. And we met with imperative and we were very concerned that someone else is going to tell our story without being our story. But imperative was very careful. They didn't want to over promise. But when they started saying this is a movie that the Osage will be proud of and they're going to tell the story through the eyes of Molly, that really got us in a positive mood. And then Chad Renfrow, who I had appointed as our ambassador to this world and the movie, said Chief Marty Scorsese, he'll be here in the morning. And so he came. First thing he said is we're going to film here. And then my staff and I encouraged him and Marianne Bauer and everyone to work with our people on this whole process. And it's just been something we worked with for years, every day, and for six months the filming was right there in Pajasca Dirt Street.
Speaker 8:Everything what you see is not computer generated. I've been down watching the film. It's an amazing process. I've never seen anything like it. We've had other movies made in Pajasca, but nothing like this. From the very beginning, from just carried on, from what David Gran was doing through imperative, through meeting with Marty, through the years of working with everybody, they listened. But I never thought it would be so much what we had dreamed about and hoped for. We never would have gone that far. But here it is. I got to thank Apple, too, for providing the framework to make it all happen. We watched that get built, although they're behind the scenes.
Speaker 3:We optioned the book seven, eight years ago and it was a fascinating piece of forgotten history. But it was told from the perspective of the FBI and we developed a screenplay soon after that. But there was a dynamic missing there that we ultimately felt that we weren't getting to the heart of the story, we weren't immersed in the Osage community the way we wanted to be, and there was two short sequences of Ernest and Molly together, which was this insanely bizarre love story, something that was hard to fathom in a lot of ways, how this woman stuck by someone who was so duplicitous. But it was true, all of it was true.
Speaker 3:And so from that point on we said to ourselves well, what if we take the chance on in getting to the heart of this story and the Osage community and this insane dynamic in Oklahoma at that time and what was going on? What if we made it about Molly and Ernest? And that was another four-year journey of rewriting and once again going to Oklahoma to meet with the Osage. There was a new, another chapter of development, of getting even further into the truth of that story and trying to be as honest as we possibly could about the atrocities that occurred. But it was really, when we made that shift to it being about Ernest and Molly and their love for one another, it opened up a whole new arena of ideas for us and it became, it took on a whole new life of itself.
Speaker 1:I just can't help but think what was their real life relationship like? Because clearly the character Leo plays he was not a good guy, but allegedly he truly loves this Molly and Molly loved him. And what did she know? Did she know anything about it? Apparently, it must have been a very complicated relationship. I wonder, in the real, real, real life, where they stood and what each other knew.
Speaker 1:So up next we're going to hear some a little bit more about that. We're going to hear from Lily Gladstone, who plays Molly, and she's going to talk about her character a little bit more. But then also she talks about the character played by Robert De Niro, william Hale. He's the uncle of Leo's character. He comes back from war and he creates some welcome home and he convinces him you need to get in this family here, so then you could have the money and we could do whatever the heck we want with it. And she talks about that briefly. And then we go to Leo and he talks about Lily playing Molly and just how much she just embodies the role and how much he really was impressed with her performance. And then we go back to Lily and this is how I would honestly be. She talks about the first time working with him, how nervous he was and all these emotions that was going through her head. But then eventually, as he starts working, and realized that hey, he's just a normal guy who wants to do the job, everything got more easy.
Speaker 1:But can you imagine working with all these people in this movie? Think De Niro, think Leo working with Scorsese? That would just be mind blowing to me. You just kind of walk in there to be like a puddle of mud, just drop to the floor and say, okay, I surrender, I can't do it. But but being able to do that, rise above these legends, the body of work that they have before you, and you get to do a scene directed by Scorsese, working with Leo. Could you imagine a greater moment in your acting career? I mean, I would just go bam on the floor, done. But that's why they're the professionals and I'm just sitting here in my basement, see, it's very simple.
Speaker 1:And then we're going to have a clip for you and in this clip we have Leo driving Molly because he's the driver. So it's kind of. I love that kind of like role reversal at first, because the Osage people, they have the money and he doesn't have anything. He's just. He's just a common worker, so he's just driving around. But then there's this fun little banter. He's trying to say, hey, you used to date this person or that person. And she's sitting back there just calm, cool, collected, going. I didn't realize it was a game and I know this had fun. Banter of getting to know each other and see, see where you stand.
Speaker 6:When we meet Molly Kyle, we meet her in the context of being with her family, being a loving sister, being a doting, um dutiful, loving daughter, um Molly being somebody who's described as easy to like, then In a way fatefully and in a way intentionally, meets Ernest Burkhart, who is under her employ as her driver, and through one lens you see a very organic attraction forming. And through another lens that Molly is pretty unaware of, you see a calculated arrangement happening. William Hale, being Ernest Burkhart's uncle, is kind of a de facto father figure to a man who's returning from war, who doesn't have a whole lot of skills to offer, doesn't have prospects at much work, plants the idea of well being, being married to an Osage person, that's. There's good money in that.
Speaker 3:I felt her at moments living as Molly. She embodied that character. She took on the soul of this woman and embraced herself into the Osage community once again, being from a different tribe, going to the Osage community, listening to that story, speaking to her direct descendants and just embodied in every moral fiber of her being who Molly was and expressed it through her performance in a very profound way. She's the heart and soul of this movie. She really is.
Speaker 6:The first day that I worked with him, my hands were shaking, naturally because of the capprillo, but after getting through those initial nerves, I was just sitting across from an incredibly present, generous, talented, immensely talented actor. The rest of the nerves about it faded away when we were just so focused on if we were doing justice to our characters. That was incredibly inspiring.
Speaker 2:They told me he was going with Matt Williams for a time. You talk too much. No, I don't talk too much, thinking I got a beating, this horse race, that's all.
Speaker 4:I didn't realize this was a race. I don't care for watching horses.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a different kind of horse. What was that? That's how you are. I don't know what you said, but it must have been Indian for handsome devil.
Speaker 1:You gotta love that dance when you first meet somebody and just figuring out where you are, what's going on, what do they feel about me all that fun laughy-slappy kind of stuff when you first meet somebody that you have that tingle. Doing research on these characters, I can't even imagine the amount that they had to dig through. That's what comes up next. We're going to hear from Lily talking about that. It's an honor it was to play this character. But getting it right and doing research, reading documents from court papers and everything like that she covers a lot of great stuff here. So here she is.
Speaker 6:One of the biggest responsibilities I felt about this role and the way that I had to occupy the space of Molly was that I'm not Osage from the community. I have access points, being Blackfeet and as a person growing up in the Blackfeet reservation. We don't have something like the reign of terror, but we have our own history with not being able to manage our own finances for a time, with a lot of the things that I think a lot of contemporary Native Americans feel and understand. Walking in, like Indian country is an incredibly diverse place and Osage country was foreign to me walking into it. Oklahoma has a different history than Montana does, where I grew up. I knew that because I had to be in this position where I'm, in a way, an access point for the audience to fall in love with Native women and to care about Native women in a really deep way. The way that that happens is I had to fall in love with everybody I was around. I had to fall in love with my sisters and that was effortless, also with the level within the community. It's not my community, but I had to carry it as if it were, as if they were stories from my family, as if, like you know, I think that's kind of the root of empathy and it's one of the reasons that I love being an actor is you're serving as an access point for other experiences and you're kind of broadening a cultural understanding of what it means to be human by doing so. So, yeah, I feel like there's no way I could really really ever understand or truly embody what it would have meant to be an Osage woman at that time, because it's unimaginable the things that this community had to deal with and it's horrendous how raced it was.
Speaker 6:In early research with Leah, we were sitting down going through some of the court documents and the testimonies from this and people were talking about the house blowing up and the documents from this and the court transcripts. They only talked about Bill Smith, the character played by Jason Isbell. There was no mention of Rita and that's. We were sitting there looking at these just court transcripts on this very fragile old paper that we were being very, very tender with and it's like you know there's not. You don't necessarily feel like you're going to be moved by a court document, but I had to stop. I mean, we had this nice system where, like, I was handing you pages and we were turning them over and being careful as we were both reading and everything, and then, like you, were kind of waiting for me to hand you the page and wasn't getting it because I was crying over the lack of Rita in this paper. So that kind of took me by surprise that it was that I was moved the way that I was in that moment.
Speaker 6:But it made it so incredibly clear that me being in this role as a responsibility for this array, you know, as a responsibility for this community that has been so erased out of their own history, starting with these court documents, before any writer gets a hand on it, you know, so it's, it's vital that this history be explored that way and I'm so grateful that, marty also, you know, in addition to this being so, you know it's Killers of the Flower Moon, because there it was also, the heartbeat of it was so shaped by a book written about this time from an Osage perspective, called A Pipe for February by Charles Redcorn, and you know there's a. I encourage people to read that because copy paste, there's elements of that book that are very clearly in the movie in a very certain way, but the tone of that book and the sense of the relationships between the sisters but in the community.
Speaker 6:the photographs that you see, the way, that like you, know, the book invites you into what that perspective is, the way that the community invites you into what their perspective is. Because if you're there and you're receptive and you're open, they'll, they'll share it. You know it's, you know it's too hard because we're talking about trauma, but people, people are willing to share and like yeah, yeah, basically read a pipe for February.
Speaker 1:The amount of research that they put in to find these characters is just amazing. I picture, as she's talking about that here, both her and Leo are sitting there going through paperwork that's so delicate you have to be handled with gloves, and it's stating all these things that happened, but oh, they don't mention this person or this doesn't show up. But it's actual history right in front of you and you're the one playing some of these characters. That must be just mind blowing. So up next we're going to hear Martin Scorsese talk about the character of Ernest and the relationship he had with his uncle and just the complexities that the guy was, and then also after that we're going to hear from Leo talking a little bit more about his character and finding that balance between his real life, family and the deeds that he has to do. It's just walking that fine line and finding these characters. It's just outstanding to me. But also in that conversation he talks about how the story was going to be portrayed and how they're going to reveal information about his character, Ernest, and I love hearing about that. We're okay, at first we might have done it this way, but then we figured, no, we'll do it this way. But he just talks about Scorsese's slow burn of characters development and it just no matter. It just amazes me how they get there. And when you watch the final product you're like yep, yep, yep, that's perfect. I see what they did and I can't see it the other way. But hearing how they could have done it is also just so amazing. And then how they finally decided this is the path. And then we're going to follow that up with a clip.
Speaker 1:This clip is between Ernest and William, both Daenerys and DeCaprio. It's half funny but half creepy and half amazing at the same time. They're talking about somebody who was recently killed, but they were shot in the wrong part of the head and Leo's all freaking out because I swear I told him on the back of the head, I did, but the guy shot him in the front, on his forehead. But just that whole conversation. It just makes you go, wow, that's the world that these people lived in.
Speaker 1:But then also, at the same level, you're watching those two great actors working off of each other. How much is that was completely scripted? How much is improv? And just them working off each other, because they've worked together a lot and it's just this natural fluidity with them and I just I would love to find out be that fly on the wall and just their normal conversations, when there's no cameras around, no microphones in their face how they just hang out, Do they? What are they?
Speaker 1:I know they're just normal people. They do what we do, but knowing they're on this level and they could be themselves around each other and not have to try to always have your dart up, because I can't imagine being on their level, because I'd imagine everybody who comes up to you has an agenda. They want something from you and that must be so annoying after a while. You just put up barriers I would, but apparently these guys are. Every time you hear people talk to them, they seem down the earth and normal. But when you just meet somebody just randomly on the street, once that light clicks on, oh you're Leo or you're DeNiro, you know he's probably sitting in their eyes and they're like oh man you want something, don't you?
Speaker 1:I want to pitch an idea, you want to be in my picture, whatever. But when they're together I bet she's just totally cool. They're like, hey, we don't have to play any games. But that was a slight ramble.
Speaker 7:Well, here's those interviews and here's that clip Now, as part of a family with several valuable shares they called it headwrites of oil profits and lots of land they had. So Ernest was, you know, probably encouraged to marry her by his uncle in order to get her family's um headwrites which gave him access to and control over her shares in the oil profits. But I think Ernest is also attracted to the Osage world, in which Mali is a member. He becomes very fascinated by that culture, even learns the language.
Speaker 3:The Osage were considered incompetent at that time and weren't allowed to be in charge of their own wealth. And by getting a caretaker like Ernest as her husband they became an independent unit. They were able to take care of one another. So that was somewhat advantageous in some respects for her. For him, he obviously, you know, had genuine feelings for her but realized that there was tremendous wealth in the family. The complexity of how that relationship unfolded is shown in the movie in a very interesting way and we played with how much we wanted to show the audience as far as Ernest's complicity in some of these murders and there were many different versions of this script One of them was exposing everything from the onset. A lot of it was, you know, a slow reveal. But I think Scorsese masterfully has this sort of slow burn with understanding the manipulation from his uncle and he gets further and further and deeper and deeper down this well of atrocious acts.
Speaker 7:You got to say in this picture he really went pretty far and astonished me. I mean he hit it, his depth of vulnerability, again, many different layers and shades and tones to Ernest that we just developed as we went along. And still amazes me, this supposed to be a suicide.
Speaker 2:you, dumb bell, you didn't kill him to leave the gun. I don't know why I told him to leave the gun. I told him to leave the gun, just like you told him. I don't know why I did. I don't know why I told him, just like you told him.
Speaker 1:You told him to do it in the front of the head, and why did you do it in the back of the head?
Speaker 2:It's so simple. The front is the front, the back is the back. Man, he has to make it look like he's done it himself. It just looks like murder. It's not supposed to be that way. You hear, I told him the front of the head. I said the front of the head, just like this, just like you told me I promise you, I promise you, I swear on my children.
Speaker 7:No, no, no, no, I swear on my children.
Speaker 4:Okay, I don't see it, I don't see it. Don't swear on your children. Make sure they look foolish.
Speaker 3:Why I ain't foolish, because I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1:I mean, honestly, people, what more could you possibly want? De Niro, leo Scorsese, is there even a question? If you don't want to see this movie, I know, I know for me, I mean, it's the big screen Even if you don't want to see it on the big screen when it comes out on Apple TV Plus, I'd strongly suggest you know, giving some time and checking these bad boys out, because this is legends right there. For us, it's just one of those things. Now come up.
Speaker 1:Next we have some really good interviews from the red carpet. First we're gonna hear from Scorsese, and what he talks about is just blows me away. This like he's worked with them for so long, both Leo and De Niro, and how some of their friends didn't even know it was De Niro until later on in the movie and he's so impressed about what both of them do and did to just completely embody these characters. And I just it's just so cool to hear a director say that. And so she's Scorsese. Can you imagine that guy giving you praise? I'd be like, oh right, that's all I need in life. But he also talks about how disappointed he is and that the actors weren't there, because when this was the red carpet happened. The strike was going on and is going on and they couldn't be there. And, as you just kind of feel bad for them because they spent all these years making it, you want to be there to celebrate. But I but we all understand why they can't be there, and that's totally understandable. But I also want to make something very, very clear too the interviews that you heard today with De Niro, leo and other actors they were done way before the strike. So I just want to make that abundantly clear. I know you know that, but just in case somebody was unaware of that, they were done long, long, long ago.
Speaker 1:But your heart goes out to him a little bit, knowing, oh, his friends aren't there to share in that screening, that world premiere. But then after him we're going to hear from Ellen Lewis and Renee Haynes and they talk about casting, getting people from that area going there, talking to people, but also about everybody else who is in the cast that maybe hasn't worked with Scorsese before, and when he just named these people off, you're like, wow, this, this cast, is just amazing. And then we're going to hear from Chief Standing Bear and just he just wants people to really remember this is a true story that happened to his people and just that they're still standing strong, no matter what happened to him. The end result they're still here and that's just. It's just so cool that he could look at it and still move on without anger. If you will, he says I can make a movie on this, we could share the story, so maybe other people will learn and maybe it won't happen again. And then we go back to Scorsese just saying in his mind he feels that this kind of movie, this epic kind of movie, deserves a scene on the big screen with your fellow moviegoers, because when you really break it down, that's where the memories happen.
Speaker 1:I know, for me, growing up, going to the theater, it was just the best time. You just go there, you get your popcorn, you get your candy in. The magic happens. And I understand that. But that's not for everybody. But even if you can't or don't want to see it in the big screen, maybe just strongly consider checking this bad boy out on Apple TV plus. Because everything that they do lately, I mean just they just gold, gold, gold. They know what they're doing with their scripts, they trust their filmmakers, they allow the filmmakers to be daring and be fearless, and that's what it takes to make this kind of film.
Speaker 7:I must say, having worked with Leo and Bob so often, both of them surprised me. I'm not being politic about it. They slipped into a way of behaving that most people good friends of us, who know Bob very well when they saw the movie didn't realize it was De Niro until 45 minutes into the film Leo I saw take his performance, take that character and play every element and every variation you could think of and that character that a human being could come up with within the context of the story, and so for me it was extraordinary for both of them. Well, I'm disappointed that we don't have the actors. It's a good time for them to be here and to enjoy, even if it's just a moment of getting a picture taken together. And you know everything they went through.
Speaker 7:The film took the number of years to make. The pandemic took its toll, there's no doubt. It took its toll in time and interruptions and what. We finally got it done and it's been a very special film for me, especially over the years trying to get it to be in a shape. That is a story I wanted to tell you know, along with Leo and Lily Gladstone and De Niro and Jesse Plemmons and all the Osage with us on this picture, but it's a special film for me and I hope I learned something from it, you know. Thank you, marty.
Speaker 9:Thank you. I've been working with him for many, many years and it's very exciting every time. Obviously, killers of the Flower Moon was going to be very challenging and very exciting and a very important story to tell. So I was excited and nervous and called Renee as soon as I know we would be moving forward with the project, for her expertise and knowledge of the indigenous community.
Speaker 5:It's really the only way I know how to do it. We first start with the incredible research that Marty and Mary Ann did with the Osage people and that outreach that they had already established. And we just built on that and we first went to the Osage community and we saw everyone who was interested in actually being part of the film.
Speaker 9:Yes, we had a fantastic open call in Oklahoma City, bajasca and Tulsa. 2,500 indigenous people came. Wonderful community, everybody very happy to be there. We cast a lot of the movie from those weeks of November 2019. No, we didn't consider bringing in Leo and Robert. Leo and Robert were there when did we? And Jesse Plemmons they were there, so it was the other people who we had to consider about bringing into this world. So we have some actors that Marty's worked with in the past, new people like John Lithgow and Brendan Frager, who he has never worked with. Other people like Tommy Schultz, who plays Blackie, who's never acted before. So it's many, many different people from different walks of life.
Speaker 8:I want people to realize that this is a true story and I also want people to realize that the forces that made this happen could result in the bad acts that you see in the movie, but it could happen to anyone if you're not ready to admit how the world works. We were not prepared, and that shows. But now, even though we've lost all that wealth, we are still here as a people and we're still expressing ourselves well, as this movie shows.
Speaker 7:Well, I think it's first of all, and always for the big screen and secondly, that in a way, this story was meant to be seen by people in a theater and audience, and also a way of rethinking about who we are as a nation and who we are as human beings, you know. And so it's always important, I think, to try to deal with aspects of the truth as maybe as unpleasant as they may be, but because they're unpleasant doesn't mean they're gonna go away.
Speaker 1:This is Scorsese. Simply Put, is a film making. God, look at the body of work he's given us, and I could go hours upon hours talking about his creations, but we all know and I won't go into it. Maybe one day I'll do a complete show on him, just talking about his magic powers as a film director. It's just amazing.
Speaker 1:Now, like I said earlier, if you want to watch this TV show, watch the scenes in the future at GoToBITly slash Cinema Judge. Bitly slash Cinema Judge. This will be there and several more shows will be there. They watch any time you want on demand, but also, if there's any way you want to improve this show, make a suggestion. Whatever you want to do, please let me know, because I can't grow if I don't know.
Speaker 1:Either go to CinemaJudgeathotmailcom or Instagram, the Cinema Judge. You go to TikTok, you go to YouTube. I'm on most platforms like Threads, hi Macedon, pinterest, tumblr. I go on and on. I'm in the meta world. If you're ever there. Go to Horizon Worlds. Look up Cinema Judge. That way we could talk real time while we're sitting in somebody's world doing whatever we want to do.
Speaker 1:I love talking movies with people when they walk up to me and we just sit there, play whatever game we're playing and then talk movies or TV. So, feel free, stop on by, because this is the deal. I want this to be a movie oasis, a place where we could come and just talk about a movie and not have yelling and screaming, crying about Hollywood or this, that or the other thing, because we all like different things, we all walk a different path and we all want the same thing an enjoyable movie experience. We want to spend our hard earned money wisely, because any movie is somebody's favorite movie. I would never tell you not to see a movie. Who am I to tell you? That's absurd to me, because the idea of this show is this Every once in a while, we have a complete, maybe a no name movie, a little hidden gem that you've never heard of.
Speaker 1:And you think to yourself. I would have never thought of seeing this movie, but these interviews and everything else made me want to think about it. That's what my hike comes from. When you find those little details, even about a blockbuster, you find out that little smidgen of something like I didn't know that. That's what it's all about Getting that information. So when you watch the film, it gives you that extra oomph, like you're part of something. Because that's I love that.
Speaker 1:I just love movies and I don't want to sit here and make more noise than you need, because this is not. It's noisy enough out there. I don't want to talk about current events, because I don't know when you're listening to this show. It could be two days from now, two years from now. So I like to keep this in a little little bubble where you can listen to this at any time you want, and it could be just happening yesterday. Every once in a while things seep in and it happens, I get that, but I want it to be a place where you just come here it could be anytime and you're just listening to it as if it was happening now, because I love hearing how you listen to this show, whether you're driving to work, sitting at home listening as a nightlight, where you play it throughout the night. Whatever works for you, all I gotta say is I always just hope my voice finds you well, because wherever, whenever or whatever you do, this is for you, because coming up next, this is where I thank you.
Speaker 1:People who listened to the last episode. I usually try to mention as many as I possibly can, but you might say to yourself hey, what's going on there, buddy, I listen to a lot of your old shows and you don't give me a shout out. Well, that's, it's impossible to track all that stuff. It's just much easier to say last episode and I list them off and it's just ballpark, it's not specific, sometimes it's just general area. I assure you, I do happy dance every time I see somebody listen, and that's no joke. When I list off your names, your city or country or whatever, I'm not just saying it flippantly. When I see that stuff come up, I'm like, yes, somebody from somewhere listened to the show and maybe they learned something. That's what I like. So don't think for one iota of a second. I don't give a darn about you know people listening, because I do it. Just it makes my day, I kid you not.
Speaker 1:So to everybody around the world, from the United States, germany, you guys are great. Every week you're there, you listen, you share it with your friends, whatever you're doing. Truly thank you, germany. Same thing with Portugal and the Philippines, outstanding. I can't thank you enough. Minneapolis, minnesota, st Paul, minnesota, stillwater, minnesota, new York, new York, chicago, illinois, nashville, tennessee, jonesboro, arkansas, council Bluffs, iowa, clovis, new Mexico, bay City, michigan, miramar Beach, florida, frankfurt, am, hessay, sentra, lisbon, central Manila and Brandenburg, just to name a few. So to every solitary one of you, thank you.
Speaker 1:And today's bourbon shout out goes out to the incredible people at Design a Bunch Floral. These guys, every time I order from them, they're quick, they're awesome and their designs are spectacular. So if you live in this area near Bloomington, minnesota, check out Design a Bunch Floral Unbelievable. I'm from the Riverndale Lake Boulevard, top notch people. I've been going to them for years. So to you guys at Design a Bunch Floral, cheers.
Speaker 1:And, like I told you earlier, when I'm doing this as a TV show, I am cranking the tunes because I don't need to sit here and worry about talking, noise and all that stuff. My happy place is editing the TV version of this before it comes to this podcast. When I'm doing that, that's just sheer happiness for me. So there I'm cranking out tunes. So what I did this week was I listened to Battle to Hell by Meatloaf because it's an awesome album. If you've never listened to it, you got to give it a shot. Beautiful, awesome, perfect album. But then I listened to the newly redone Dark Side of the Moon. It's redone by Roger Waters and it is done in a completely original artistic way. I mean, I've heard a lot of people crying and complaining about it. Hey, and that's their jam.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I'm never here to tell you to like something or not like something, but the tones and the spoken word in some of the songs, just the bluesy, jazzy, just I don't even know the words for it because I'm not a musician but what he did with this album when he did it his own little version of it or not little version, but big version of it Dark Side of the Moon, redux unbelievable. I personally loved it. I think I listened to it at least three or four times. And that's just me.
Speaker 1:I'm a huge Roger Waters fan in Pink Floyd. I mean both separately and alone. What have you? Brilliant entertainer, and it's just amazing. And if you ever have a chance to see him live, you got to do it because he puts on one massively glorious show. And even though it wasn't Roger Waters.
Speaker 1:But one time when I went to a Pink Floyd concert and it was just one of my greatest experiences ever at a concert it was how I didn't get kicked out I didn't know, but I digress so I listened to that. If you have a time or whatever device you have, give it a shot, but do it with an open mind because it is original and unique but also beautiful. And then it wasn't done with the episode yet. So then I went, delved a little bit in my past and I listened to David Gray, his album White Ladder. It is so wonderful. There's so many songs on that. Just being to be right back to that era, because I remember when the first time I heard the album, I think it was March of 2003.
Speaker 1:And I was in Grand Cayman with my girlfriend soon to become my wife and that song was playing on the sunset like cruise thing on a boat. David Gray, white Ladder was playing and there's a song on there called Sail Away Sail Away with me. I think it's called, but it fit perfectly, because you're on a boat and you're sailing out there and the sun was setting Masterful album. So everyone. So I throw it back on that album and I'm like, oh man, it just, it brings me back to that happy place being on the Water, grand Cayman great album.
Speaker 1:So if you've never listened to it or don't know who David Gray is, check it out. I he has some monster songs on there at the time that were really popular. So give it a, give it a world, give it a, give it a play, because it's really worth your time. That's David Gray, white Ladder. Well, that is it, my glass of weights. I'm thirsty. So cheers to you and to the movies. So until next time, be well, be good, and I'm gone. I'm Jeff. Thanks for listening to the Cinema Judge.